Kabar TDI

Discussion in 'Knives, Gear, Guns And Other Tools' started by Stone, Feb 3, 2017.

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  1. ManOfSteel

    ManOfSteel Member

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    I figured the angle was one of the reasons. I could def see that being valid.
     
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  2. Stone

    Stone Member

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    OK, dokey. I'm on the third bowl of egg drop green chile chicken stew. This one with a dollop of cream cheese and a dollop of homemade liver pate. Exceptional.

    So while the TDI component of this thread simmers, I'll address @nathan shepherd's question about sticks. There are several good recommendations above. Here are mine, based in my own experiences.

    Some context/background. I'm 66. I've been into sticks since about age 10 when I picked up my first walking stick -- a 50" piece of diamond willow -- in a creek bed in my hometown near Memphis. I carved a handle into it on the way home. I still have that stick. It's with my others (currently, a couple of dozen) in the bushcraft studio (next room, which for most would be a "living room" in an apartment).

    I used that stick as a walking stick well into my 30's, including in early backpacking days. But as a skinny kid with a weird name, I had to learn early on how to defend myself against bigger guys -- we had a lot of bullies in my town, some of whom were full backs or tackles. I learned pretty early that carrying a stick helped dissuade attacks, especially if I was seen in the park practicing some basic skills.

    Roll tape forward to 18. I'd just graduated high school and found a Taekwondo dojo in Memphis. I joined, and got to purple belt. Well, really just yellow, just before my exam for purple. I was ready, but I learned the master of the dojo was a douche bag, so quit. Later, in my 30's, during grad school in NM, I studied aiki-jitsu.

    But in my 50's, I discovered Kali/Escrima, then Irish Stick Fighting. What both taught me was this. If I'm going to a knife fight, I want to be carrying a gun (preferably), or at least a long stick. I'd rather have a stick in a knife fight than a knife. Way more reach, and will disable more quickly (though not as fast as a bullet).

    I resonated with Kali because I'm also a drummer, and the sticks are double and shorter. (Drum sticks are 16"; Kali most commonly 24", but both use a very dynamic motion.)

    But I resonated with ISF because it uses walking sticks -- like I have used while hiking and backpacking since age 10 -- one at a time. ISF uses canes -- walking canes, traditionally blackthorn, but can be other woods (i.e, ash, the most common wood for baseball bats).

    I learned that I can use some -- but not all -- ISF techniques with a longer walking stick (like my staff, 53"), and those techniques are even more effective than with a walking cane. (Example: block a strike with an "open the door" move, then break ribs in the attacker. Way easier with a longer staff. Plus thrusts with the end are easier while maintaining distance.)

    Having said that, if I had another life time, I'd enroll in classes in Kali/Escrima instead of Taekwondo. Why? Sticks instead of hands and feet, even though Kali includes open hand techniques that are virtually identical to their stick techniques (at least the dual stick techniques, but even in single, the off hand does the open hand techniques), plus they include blade training.

    The Filipinos invented Kali/Escrima during warfare among themselves, but then used it to effectively repelled (Spanish) invaders carrying swords. With what? Rattan sticks. Bad ass.

    And that's why I recommend Escrima/Kali to anyone who wants to study stick martial arts with shorter sticks for SD only instead using their walking stick or cane.

    The Russians have some pretty wicked stick martial arts as well, but that's another post.

    For now, here are a few vids. First, some basic footage of Kali. In the first video, a student demonstrates basic stick techniques. Note: dynamic! -- Imagine a poor schmuck from the 'hood with a knife and an attitude, but little training. :eek: Toast. :oops: The guy in the yellow sports pants is a master in the Philippines -- I forget his name. (Watch anything with keywords "Doce Pares").

    Then, footage of a training session with the guy I'd study with if I was going to study Kali: Doug Marcaida. He understands the techniques intuitively. It requires no thought for him; it's automatic. He can even do it while he explains -- clearly -- what he's doing. This is true multitasking. It's like Neo fighting agent Smith while thinking about drinks after work with Trinity.

    Finally, an interview with one of the best kali trainers on Earth, a student and colleague of Bruce Lee, Dan Inosanto.

    What these people can do with simple sticks is beyond amazing.





     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  3. Stone

    Stone Member

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    Another stick video. This one is Kelly McCann (Steve Glover in an earlier life, covering his role as a Marine spec ops combatives instructor) teaching how to use a 21" stick to disarm a person with a knife in a painful way.

    McCann's Combatives SD techniques are grounded in Jeet Kune Do. He also studied with B. Lee.

     
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  4. nathan shepherd

    nathan shepherd Member

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    Some good information above. Thanks. I've cut a suitable stick and it's now drying inside. Some work with a knife will make it perfect.
     
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  5. Theodore

    Theodore Member

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    Wood checks(cracks) when it dries. Covering the ends in wax(any kind) prevents this. I have been told paint works as well. I have never tried it.
     
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  6. Stone

    Stone Member

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    You're welcome. I enjoyed writing it. Sticks are a bit of a passionate avocation for me; I consider myself a student of sticks. (Hey, one could do worse in life. :D )

    And Theodore's advice about the wax on the ends is good. (I watched a video a couple of days ago about prepping blackthorn; that maker recommended wax also.)

    I'm curious: what length did you decide to try first?

    When I first started putzing with short sticks -- after watching a TON of videos by Inosanto and other kali teachers -- I went with 24". I considered rattan -- and may invest in a pair of rattan sticks some day -- but to start, to try out some of the techniques, learn basic strikes and blocks -- I went with other, heavier woods. Perhaps as a result, I decided 24" was too heavy (rattan is not), so went to 22", then 20", and finally all the way to 16", which is where my short sticks are now. They just feel the right length for me with heavier wood, even though many of the strikes I practice are from Kali.

    Again, in part I think because I'm a drummer (mostly hand drums, but occasionally sticks, especially when I'm in the woods and there's a hollow log nearby ...), and classic drum sticks are 16", as are those for Japanese Taiko drummers -- but theirs are more like mauls. I've posted one of my favorite Taiko drum videos below. Given the unbelievably rigorous training they undergo, I see warriors, or drummers playing drums for war, and the sticks as weapons that I would not want to be a drum for. :eek:

    Having said that, I've learned that outside of drumming, I'm more of a single stick guy, even if two weapons: stick/knife, stick/gun :D), etc.

     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
  7. nathan shepherd

    nathan shepherd Member

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    I cut the stick to a short walking stick size. I've not measured it exactly. I will have a play with it and then cut it down it the length that feels natural. I've waxed both ends as recommended. I'm guessing it will take a couple of weeks to dry out inside the house. I'm then going to take the bark off and make some finishing touches to it. As I'm only going to use it one handed I'm thinking a textured handle and London stock finish on the rest of it.

     
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  8. Stone

    Stone Member

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    Oh, man, that sounds like a sweet project stick. Can't wait to see how it turns out.

    I'll watch the vid after work. Good timing since I plan to try my hand at carving some handles this year.

    I can't remember if you told us upstream ... do you know what kind of wood your stick is?
     
  9. nathan shepherd

    nathan shepherd Member

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    I didn't. I do. It's Hazel.
     
  10. Stone

    Stone Member

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    I've been told recently that's an excellent choice -- which you probably knew since you chose it.

    I have a good friend that owns 25 acres a little south of here that's planning to start a stick making business, specifically fighting sticks. He's an excellent carver, and handy with shop tools. So he's planting several species renowned for stick use -- hazel being one, and hornbeam, which are related as it turns out -- and in the short term, he's connected to a guy who can get him a truckload -- literally -- of sticks from thinning projects. (He says he has many truck loads; all my friend has to do is pay for fuel to get them here.)

    He's also working on a side project with one of Glenn Doyle's (ISF expert; see above) students to teach stick fighting classes locally, perhaps regionally. I told him to sign me up.
     
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  11. nathan shepherd

    nathan shepherd Member

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    Hazel is a very hard wood and should be hard to break. The above finishing process will add strength as well. I guess Oak would be a good choice as well.
     
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  12. Stone

    Stone Member

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    Hickory is another over here that has a good reputation.
    ____

    I got to thinking last night about another type of stick I own and carry -- although not nearly as often as I once did. [Because there are far fewer restrictions on SD tools where I live now.]

    Kubotans. I own 3: one 5.5" steel, one 6" polymer, and a flexible trainer. I've not trained as thoroughly with them as I'd like, but know enough that I could be effective with it in CQ engagements. There are a few easy techniques that are very effective: hammer fist against bone -- like the back of a hand, sternum, rib or foot -- or pressure points; hooks; jabs into the back.

    And -- to come full circle in this thread about TDI --
    kubotans are to stick fighting arts what the TDI is to fighting knives:
    a small, concealable, last ditch 'surprise' weapon used in close quarter situations.

    And if kubotans are illegal in a jurisdiction, may I suggest a tactical pen?
    They can be just as effective.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  13. Stone

    Stone Member

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    Here's one tiny little bit of kubotan technique for very beginners.
    The number of techniques known by experts is vast, however.

     
  14. Stone

    Stone Member

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    This one seems relevant here, also.

    Doug Marcaida on how to employ a small karambit
    (basically the same length blade as the TDI)
    using kali stick techniques.

    See, it's all tied together: blades and sticks.

    We'll fit shotguns in another day.
     
  15. Stone

    Stone Member

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    And a follow up by Mr. M.

    Watch at 2:18 as his student does exactly what
    the TDI is designed (originally) to do,
    but with the karambit.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  16. Stone

    Stone Member

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    Let's go back into the history of the TDI.

    It's just a small, concealable karambit w/ no finger ring.
     
  17. Flex

    Flex Moderator Staff Member

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    I always liked the way the Spyderco karambit looked.
     
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  18. Expat

    Expat Expat™ Knives Staff Member

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    Nem, all you need is a silver tipped walking cane and a treatise on Bartitsu by old E. W.

    Thats how a gentleman would go.

    I mean, it saved my hero at Reichenbach Falls.
     
  19. Andy the Aussie

    Andy the Aussie Administrator of the Century Staff Member

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    Elementary my dear Expat.
     
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  20. Bushman5

    Bushman5 Member

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    I would also be interested in some sticks ....keep me in the loop Stone.
     
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