Question for you steel nerds

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Expat, Dec 27, 2016.

  1. DYSPHORIC JOY

    DYSPHORIC JOY Administrator Staff Member

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    Agree.
     
  2. DYSPHORIC JOY

    DYSPHORIC JOY Administrator Staff Member

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    Another steel that I have been impressed with is 80CRV2. I don't know that much about it but wow, the performance is there from what I have used and easy to sharpen. Have tested several of Dan Winkler's blades and they are bombproof.

    Probably costly though.
     
  3. Nether

    Nether Member

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    8Cr14MoV - By far the cheapest steel of the lot. Chinese steel. It's said to be AUS-8 level - IMO, 8CR13MoV is superior in edge toughness/edge holding. It's very decent steel for the 20-30.oo knives it's used on. Not sure how corrosion resistant it is. Probably as well as most listed here. If I had to guess......

    440C - classic stainless steel that was ( and still is to some degree) the standard by which all other steels were compared to. It's very stain resistant, but there are better stainless out there. I have no idea if it is salt water worthy. 440A ( equivalent to AUS6) would be the most stainless of the 440A, B & C variants. IIRC, in the 80s and early to mid 90s, some of the premium diving knives were 440C. Cheaper ones were 400 series. 420, 440A, etc. Lower number/letter the less performance, but higher corrosion resistance.

    AUS-8 - Hate it. Like S35VN, it's overrated. Tho no where near as overrated/over-hyped as S35VN. I've owed many knives in AUS8. Never liked the performance of any of them. China beats the Japs on this one.

    AUS-10 - Don't see this much anymore. I believe it's comparable to ATS34/154CM - Supposedly a good steel with decent corrosion resistance.

    S30V - I may be wrong, but I believe this steel is actually more stainless than 440C. But it would depend on blade finish. polished vs sandblasted, etc. If you can get a DLC coated S30V. Then S30V is your huckleberry. It beats the **** out of all the above steels, with the exception of absolute edge toughness. It tends to chip before bending/deforming. Where the above steels would deform much more readily. S30V resists deformation, which is probably why its more prone to chipping out. But really, unless you are cutting something very hard, there's no reason for it to chip out.

    Tips: polished metal resists rust better than sandblasted, tumbled(?) or raw steels. Durable coating such as DLC ( diamond like carbon) would be even better. But coatings wear off eventually, leaving potential for rust. So polished blades are the better option for salt water environment.

    Something else. S30V when it rusts, tends to surface rust, rather than pit. To me, that's a sign of a good steel. It's possible it's due to the carbides in the steel being much smaller, more fine than the above steels. But who knows.

    S30V will cost more of a premium over the other aforementioned steels, but will hold an edge much longer too. It's also easier to maintain, meaning if it does show some rust, its easily wiped away. However, if concerned about that, a food grade oil like walnut oil is good. It never goes rancid ( apparently)

    Hope this helps. And even if I am not 100% accurate. I'm pretty confident I am more right than wrong :D


    Edit: funny to me how many mistakes/errors/typos I see after i hit post :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
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  4. timdgsr

    timdgsr Member

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    Slade gave a pretty good run down.

    I personally don't care for S30 that much, but it will probably attract more people than 440c or Aus8 and alphabet soup on name recognition alone.

    I love 154cm. Of the cheaper stainless options, it's my favorite. H1 and 440C are probably your best bet when you mention salt water. H1 being definitely most rust resistant, I think rust proof actually.
     
  5. erik

    erik Member

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    DJ,
    80CRV2 is not a costly steel - but it's also not even close to stainless - more like 5160 on steroids.
    Jim Bensinger has a really good HT for it as well - hammer thin edges through 16p nails with a slight dent and no chipping type good.
     
  6. DYSPHORIC JOY

    DYSPHORIC JOY Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks brother, I figured you would have the rundown.
     
  7. RedEyedHog

    RedEyedHog Moderator Staff Member

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    I've always found S30 to be a good all around steel too. Pretty easy to sharpen as long as you don't let it get too dull.
     
  8. Jeff Randall

    Jeff Randall ESEE Knives / Randall's Adventure & Training Staff Member

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    VG10 is the best stainless I have ever used in a knife.
     
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  9. Expat

    Expat Expat™ Knives Staff Member

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    I had an Al Mar SERE back in the day with VG 10. Always liked that knife.
     
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  10. Scrap

    Scrap Member

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    I recently bought a couple of Mora knives with 12c27 steel blades.
    (Eldris and Kansbol.)
    Takes a fine edge,holds it very decently and strops back up without too much effort.
    I think Mora has recently upped their HT a bit.
    Their new stainless models seem to preform a bit better than my old stainless Companion.
     
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  11. CWB

    CWB Member

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    I love my s35vn fiddlebacks and spyderco knives. I also love my tm hunt Yumas in cpm154. I asked Todd to make them for use around saltwater and a humid environment as we're moving to Florida hopefully next year. Steel needed to be tough as well as rust resistant. I believe it's priced good. 440c would be a decent alternative if you cryo quench as Enis does on his entrek blades.
     
  12. FortyTwoBlades

    FortyTwoBlades Moderator Staff Member

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    Here's a big question: what kind of cutting is it gonna' be doing? With 1 being 100% push-cutting (such as wood carving) and 10 being 100% slicing, where does the intended tool sit? Then how abrasive is the bulk of the target material going to be?

    13C26 etc. is marvelous steel for push-cutting because of its very fine grain, but it tends to blunt rapidly in slicing as a result. I'd not want to use it for cutting lots of dirty rope, for instance, but it'll take a great wood-carving edge with little effort. By contrast, 440C or S30V will take a good edge for extended slicing of fairly abrasive materials like cardboard and rope, but getting a good push-cutting edge on them that will hold up is often difficult because of the size of their carbides. Neither is very tough, while 13C26 or 420HC are very tough for stainless steels. You might also look into X55CrMo14 with a harder heat treatment like F. Dick of Germany does in their culinary and industrial butchers' knives if looking for economy with a good blend of corrosion resistance, toughness, and edge retention. It's the same stuff Victorinox uses, but F. Dick's knives are run at a little higher RC and they're still quite tough while having much improved edge stability and retention. No fighting a burr when honing like one sometimes does with the Victorinox stuff.
     
  13. Flex

    Flex Moderator Staff Member

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    Elmax would go on my list.

    M4 with DLC coating would be amazing...
     
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  14. Theodore

    Theodore Member

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    S30v. Especially if you take advantage of it an give the knife a "thin" edge. I have not experienced any difficulty sharpening it. I use diamond. Holds an edge great.
     
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  15. Wolfman Zack

    Wolfman Zack Member

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    Of those, I like S30v, but I'd rather see 12c27, 13c26, or other Sandvik steels, VG-10, or AEB-L.
     
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  16. Slade

    Slade Member

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    I don't know if it is widely available, but 14C28N was specifically developed for increased rust resistance and I love it. :)
     
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  17. Expat

    Expat Expat™ Knives Staff Member

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    It's slicing 100%. Tuna, dorado, shark, stingray steaks, limes, rope, some smart-aleck deckhands...

    I've never push-cut anything in my life. Unless batoning counts.
     
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  18. FortyTwoBlades

    FortyTwoBlades Moderator Staff Member

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    S30V or N690Co then, definitely. 440C would be good for an economical option, though.
     
  19. erik

    erik Member

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    batoning is push-cutting with verve and elan.
     
  20. Expat

    Expat Expat™ Knives Staff Member

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    Indeed.
     

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