Just going to put this link here so I don't lose it. Bookmarked, also, but ... redundancy is good redundancy is good.
That fellow speaks well. It was already mentioned that these techniques have been around a while. There's two things he did not mention. If you point your strong foot toward the target this will help in getting your shoulders squared up as he suggests. This was apparent in the video but not mentioned; rotating your support hand as much as possible ofer their barrel allows more control, much more effective on an M16 than a pump shotgun. However, while working on static single targets at the range the shooter soon realizes that htese techniques might not work as well if multiple assailants are encountered separated by several degrees. The lower the elbows the, stiffer the torso not allowing fluid movement when engaging targets at different locations. The two most important things in shotgun shooting is eye on th target and head on the stock through the entire process.
I've switched over to Federal Flite Control in mind, preferably the #1 buckshot, but #00 will work too. Out to about 15 yards (longest distance I can come up with in my house), it punches a single large hole. To my knowledge, 11-87's are a good gun. If you've considering semi-auto, it may be worth seeing if you can try out a 12ga. The recoil systems in many make them much, much more manageable (and I say this not from a "12ga is mo' betta" standpoint, but to increase your options in both the gun itself, but any aftermarket options you want/like too). I can't offer any comparison from my own experience on semi-auto 12 vs 20, but a semi-auto 12 vs a pump 12 (or even 20) is something my friends wife (5' nothin, 130lbs) can handle well.
I love Lever Actions but Lever Action Shotguns??? https://www.henryrifles.com/shotgun/lever-action-410-shotgun/
I have shot a 12ga semi, and was impressed at how much more manageable it was. But they're big and ungainly in comparison, in my hands. It's true, there are many more options. I noticed that while browsing last night after reading this thread.
Is any one else here a fan of the 28 gauge? It is my favorite for many things, I have three. LOP has been mentioned. The fellow in the video stated that he has seen stock guns with 15". I have not. The standard is 14 1/2". My house shotgun is shorter and I am fine with it in any event I have to clear rooms. But shorter stocks kick me much more and come right into my cheek. Many knowledgeable people disagree. A longer LOP can be managed if one thrusts the gun forward to the target and brings it back into the shoulder.(caveat... I may have had an orangutang in my ancestry, many who have observed me in various states of disrobe question the creation theory. I have been contacted by Dr. Leaky on numerous occasions but never return his call) One should always have the front sight in the peripheral vision when suspecting the gun will be fired whether for bird or beast. Fractions of seconds are wasted if the eye must find the sight. Observe the practices bird hunter over dogs; he approached with the gun in the low ready, as soon as he the bird flushes the bead is moving ahead of the flight path. Lead and direction are established and the gun is fired the instant it touches the shoulder. In a indoor situation one uses the high ready but the end of the gun or bead is still visible if cover allows.
^ This is why I'm such a fan of getting good training from people who know what the heck they're talking about. It saves a lot of time on the learning curve. Defensive pistol is front sight, front sight, front sight. However, switch to clays shooting and you'll be horrible if you're always searching for the sight. By the time you've focused from bird to sight to bird, trying to line the two up, it's long past the chance to shoot. Take a world class pistol marksman with a lifetime of training and put him on a clays course and a 12 year old with a pump can beat him. An expert in one thing doesn't always translate as an expert in another. Techniques in one may hurt success in another. Just cause you're a hunter and you've been around guns "all your life" doesn't mean you necessarily have good defensive pistol skills, and vice versa. Get some good training however, and you can switch back and forth between disciplines easily with practice.
^ ive been a hunter and around guns all my life but I'm not a great defensive pistol shooter. I'll give you 22 or 23 out of 25 on a trap range all day long with my Maxus and shoot ping pong balls with my bow. You put me in a defensive pistol class and I can't hang with those guys.
To illustrate your point, in 1992 PPC added some skeet targets to thier course at the nationals, I was at Glynco. There were many top high master PPC shooters there. These folks could sometimes shoot a 2" group at 50 yards with thier handgun. I was shooting PPC with them and was drafted to coach them on skeet. I was totally unsuccessful. I would like to think I could do better now but can not guarantee. They stopped thier gun as if hitting a wall on station 4. My point is that marksmanship has nothing to do with shooting fast moving objects with a shotgun. Think of silhouettes. Shooting a rifle offhand at any distance is pretty intimidating to some really good riflemen who regularly kill game at great distance. I have held AA classification in skeet and really struggled at sporting clays because I had not put in the time. If one wants to be good at something, specialize. However If dabbling in everything trips your trigger do it. I often find the struggle more enjoying than the achievement. I am currently shooting long range with my son. I have never understood reading the wind and it is a challenge. We have found a 1200 yd range and I am excited. We have digressed from the shotgun, apologies. No one has questioned the different grips, chokes, shot size, bbl length, weight for purpose, ribs, history, double triggers, classic American doubles, Spanish guns, kersten bolts etc.??
Well, if someone wants to get me a Purdey 16 ga side x side for Christmas with straight English grip, I wouldn't complain. We can talk about that. Or even an AyA No. 2. I'm not picky. I'll throw a cleaver or two your way in trade...
Behind reading here. Just scanned so far, looks like some new good stuff got posted over night. Busy day at work, but I'll catch up tonight. Thanks to all.
Shotguns come in a nearly infinite number of combinations. There are many manufacturers of numerous styles of shotgun. They come in various gauges to fit the needs of the many and suitable for nearly every purpose. Every user of a shotgun should determine what the purpose of that shotgun and find a specific gun that excels at that purpose. I could not tell you, all of the different shotguns that I have owned over the years. If I found one that I like better than the one currently owned, the old one went on the trading block. I have not traded a shotgun away in a few years. I must have finally found what works for me. To address Stone's current search, I have owned a Stoeger Coach Gun. The following is my opinion of the gun and may not reflect the ideas of others. I use shotguns for hunting as a prime purpose. I require that they fill double duty as a home defense shotgun. The Stoeger seemed that it would easily fill the home defense role. I found it to be quite stiff when being broken down. It was not a good hunting firearm for my taste. The main game hunted with a shotgun are wild turkey and rabbit. The Stoeger went onto the trading block a few years ago. The shop owner where it was traded, found a great use for it. The gun is still mounted below his register counter and loaded for bear.
A generous offer, I am sure you will be cleverlees soon. I have an AyA 117, sort of like a crude but stronger #2 because of a third bite. I used for rough country quail in NM. The type of places where the first indication your foot was tangled in wire was a dirt taste in your mouth. The rest of mine are Arrietas.
In a self defense / home invasion situation... I just plan to use my shotgun to fight my way back to my box full of cleavers!
Ok, finally catching up here after work as a big pot of meat maranara simmers on the stove. I'm reading everything -- and like what's been posted today -- but will only comment on what's most relevant to me. (I'm glad the 11-87 question is being addressed -- all shotguns and questions about them of any kind are welcome here -- but I'll pay most attention to SxS.) OK, in no particular order. AyA #2. Had to search that one. Impressive for sure. And only $5500 MSRP. Expat, pm me a shipping address. I'll have one FedX overnighted to your door on Monday or Tuesday. ( ) KMCM, reading your posts with great interest. Fine tips and a great sense of humor. (Leaky and orangutans; funny stuff! {I'm an evolutionary ecologist by training.} Keep it coming!) Don't sweat the tangents. Anyone who's hung out on here with me for any length of time knows I'm one of the kings of non-linearities (aka tangents). OK, back to chocolate glazed donuts. Oh, wait ... shotguns. Right, shotguns. Black Train, thanks much for offering your impressions of the Stoeger CG. All opinions are not only welcomed here, but encouraged, good, bad or indifferent. If I'm going to buy one -- which I am -- I want to know as much about it as I can. (The story of where it wound up -- below the register in the shop -- made me laugh earlier in the afternoon. I can relate. I see mine as mainly a trail and camp gun -- portable, fits in the pack, light, short -- to do what needs doing on the trail and camp, and can take care of base camp (what i call my home). My impression of it from watching videos, reading reviews, etc: good gun, but not great gun. (Sure as hell not even in the same league with AyA. In fact, about two leagues down.) Still for < $500, good gun. Needs some fit and finish. I hypothesize that's how they keep the $ down: produce a good gun, but let the buyer do the work of polishing it up. I like doing that. I do it with all my guns, even better ones. I take them down as far as I can -- usually before I even shoot them -- polish, knock off edges, etc. I did it with my Marlin 336A (an ex-gun for me), learned a lot, and made it butter smooth. I'll do it with the Stoeger also. Significant numbers of buyers do. I've found at least two vids about how to do it. I'll post at least one below. I'll admit, I may eventually sell it. I'm not totally convinced that it'll be the gun I want. Maybe, maybe not. Testable hypothesis. But it seems to have some qualities I want at an affordable (for me) price: SxS, short, light, simple, take down in 30 sec, stow in pack; 20. Check. Ok, maranara's ready. Here's that "slicking up your Stoeger coach gun" video.
Aguila Mini shells... got a bunch of these a few months back. They make a variety of shot size as well as slugs. These are the slugs... and hard to find for me. However, if you can get them, they nearly double your capacity. I'm not sure they cycle reliably in all shotguns but I've had no problems so far in my Benelli Supernova. You can see from the pic... it's two for one compared to 3 and 1\2 inch shells for capacity in a magazine fed gun. https://www.aguilaammo.com/shotshell/
I hope Aguila will produce those mini's in 20 someday. I love the concept, but they're 12 only right now, it seems. Not that I'll be able to get more than 2 in my SCG, but I like them for reduced recoil also, and smaller storage space. I forgot to get back to this. I know of a fellow on another forum -- gun forum -- who is a big advocate of 28 ga. He sung their praises for years with great stories about bird hunting. I confess, I know little about 28, but am interested. (Here's a starter article I found by Chuck Hawks.) It strikes me that it's as much smaller than 20 as 20 is from 12: 8 units of lead ball (ULB?). My biggest question is, how does it relate to .410? I know that .410 is a caliber, not a gauge. But I don't have a good sense of how it relates to 28 in terms of size, power, loads, use, etc. I was around .410 some as a kid -- though I never owned one, friends did.
