Big changes coming to ESEE Knives

Discussion in 'ESEE® Knives and Gear' started by shaneadams90, Dec 2, 2019.

  1. Black5

    Black5 Member

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    I'll say this much and then shut up.

    I just read a whole bunch of gobbledygook on another forum extolling the virtues of the s35vn, how Esee possibly didn't use the right heat treat, how the video appeared to intentionally destroy a fine knife, how real knife users don't baton, etc, etc.

    Reading the conversation between Jeff and Sam, even if I'm not a metallurgical genius, was all the explanation I need.
    In summary, the steel is designed to excel in an area different from the Esee's reputation, and should be treated accordingly.
    Of course, these may be some of the same people who complained that the logo developed rust after it was left in the rain with no oil for a week.

    I'm not going to use my Escalade to pull my stock trailer out of a muddy pasture loaded with calves, even if it could.
    Same logic applies to the knives.

    Keep up the good work. And make the CR2.5 in this new steel. My wife will want one.
     
  2. Strigidae

    Strigidae Administrator Staff Member

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  3. Jeff Randall

    Jeff Randall ESEE Knives / Randall's Adventure & Training Staff Member

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    Add a Leatherman Skeletool CX to the cart also. It's a staple around here.
     
  4. Jeff Randall

    Jeff Randall ESEE Knives / Randall's Adventure & Training Staff Member

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    We do have a way of hurting feelings in this industry :) I mean, after all we did buy a brand new blow torch just for heat treating S35V and the operator has a pretty steady hand.
     
  5. Sam Wilson

    Sam Wilson Member

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    I think the real question is what the heck does Jeff do all day that he has time to spend on a forum posting about batonning? Do we even know if he was wearing pants or not? I wasn't, but I expect more from Randall...
     
  6. Jeff Randall

    Jeff Randall ESEE Knives / Randall's Adventure & Training Staff Member

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    In my defense, I plainly told Patrick not to baton any hard cheese with that knife. He did it anyway. I told him it would break. From my limited testing it works well with Velveeta.
     
  7. Frigin

    Frigin Member

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    Yes I am a fan of leatherman. I have I few and have been carrying one for about 15 years now. I don’t leave home without it.
     
  8. mtngoat

    mtngoat Member

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    Those cheese deer are made of the hard stuff.
     
  9. DirtySouth

    DirtySouth Member

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    I agree with Black5 and his thinking. When I think of a hard use knife, I think of Esee. When someone asks my recommendation about a field knife, I always recommend Esee. I live in North GA, which more times out of not, is very humid. I haven't had an issue with rust but I take care of my gear. Growing up poor and eating beans and taters, I learned a long time ago as a kid not to leave my stuff sitting outside neglected. You take care of your stuff so that you can depend on it.

    To me, Esee knives are the Glocks of the knife world. Sure there are sexier knives out there, but when the rubber hits the road, I want no doubts and will gladly give up some bells and whistles for something that I can count on for my application.
     
  10. Dirty Harry

    Dirty Harry Member

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    I read all 15 pages of this thread. Incredibly informative and interesting. I came here to research answers regarding blade retention in a quest to decide on a new brand of hunting knife.

    Believe it or not, I’ve field dressed, caped and butchered every large game hunt kill over the last 25 years, with a Cold Steel Trail Master in Carbon V. Last November, after my last buck harvest, it was retired in near new condition to my gun safe. I’ve used it on whitetail, black Bear, caribou, Impala and Waterbuck. Carbon steel, stayed sharp, never a rust issue.

    I need a new hunting knife. I want 1095... and I want my new knife SMALLER than the last. I wanted the qualities and durability of my last knife, so I was researching between ESEE and Tops. I was slightly worried about blade retention after spending hours listening to YouTube reviews.

    I have an ESEE 4 and the G10 blue/black scales from TKC in the TKC shopping cart... waiting to pull that trigger. I chose TKC for the new scale design and the color choices. My only worry is blade sharpness retention... so I came here. After spending the last hour reading this thread... I’ve come to the conclusion that the ESEE 4 is the right choice and I’ll just keep a ceramic or Diamond rod in my fanny pack.

    I doubt I’ll ever baton with it... or start a camp fire... but I want the toughness and durability if I find myself in a situation that I need to.

    Mr. Randall, you’ve found a new customer based on your product durability and your honesty. The back and forth between you and Mr. Wilson, was insightful. Your honesty pointed out that you can’t have your cake and eat it too... when it comes to buying or selling knives. You’ve gained a new customer for at least the rest of my life.

    Thanks ... Harry
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2020
  11. Black5

    Black5 Member

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    images (13).jpeg

    Get one of these little dudes right here.

    Keeps every one of my Esee knives sharp, fits in a pocket, and even a moron like me can use one successfully.
    Even works on a junglas, but you need to set the junglas down, blade up, and move the sharpener along the blade.
    :D
     
  12. DYSPHORIC JOY

    DYSPHORIC JOY Administrator Staff Member

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    The Whole Lotta Rosie of the knife world.
     
  13. Jeff Randall

    Jeff Randall ESEE Knives / Randall's Adventure & Training Staff Member

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    I truly enjoy honest debate that doesn't end up in a pissing contest and hurt feelings since everyone (including those debating) typically learn a great deal. It's pretty awesome to have folks on this forum like Sam who have a ton of experience and knowledge and are not afraid to put their opinions out there in a respectful manner.
     
  14. Jeff Randall

    Jeff Randall ESEE Knives / Randall's Adventure & Training Staff Member

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    Best AC/DC song ever.
     
  15. Patrick Rollins

    Patrick Rollins Lead Instructor Staff Member

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    I am far from being known for taking a scientific approach! But I understand why what I did doesn't tell most people more than they already knew. Any steel will break under the right conditions. I get that. But this was the first ESEE knife I have ever broken. I have an ESEE 3 that I bought in 2008, before ever meeting Jeff or Mike and have been batoning with it for years. On trips, teaching classes, and just making fires around the house. I have never had an issue with it. We will see all the "he broke it on purpose, you should never baton, etc" post because of putting this out there. In most cases you can make fire in wet conditions without ever batoning your knife. Just find the driest standing dead wood you can and shave it down until you get to the dry stuff. But, I personally, want to know that the knife I am carrying could withstand it if I had to. It all comes down to personal preference and expectations. The 1095 fans are going to keep liking 1095, and the S35v fans are going to say we broke it on purpose. The (baton or not to baton) argument is right up there with (If you could only carry one knife) or the (small knife vs large knife debate). I'm more of a believer in carry as many knives of whatever size you want to, and do whatever you want to do with them. Legally of course!
     
  16. Strigidae

    Strigidae Administrator Staff Member

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    An OD green scaled knife wouldnt have broke.
     
  17. Jeff Randall

    Jeff Randall ESEE Knives / Randall's Adventure & Training Staff Member

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    While this is absolute fact based on the physical properties of OD material, we don't like OD
     
  18. Frigin

    Frigin Member

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    .”I'm more of a believer in carry as many knives of whatever size you want to, and do whatever you want to do with them. “

    I love this quote :rolleyes:
     
    Jeff Randall likes this.
  19. Jeff Randall

    Jeff Randall ESEE Knives / Randall's Adventure & Training Staff Member

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    I was going to post this up on BushcraftUSA in response to the thread there about this but my account has not been approved yet, so I will just post it here and save me some time since there are a lot of members here that are also members there. Feel free to copy it over if you want to:

    As far as this post goes, we run our 1095 knives towards the upper side of 57 Rc. One thing that has been touched on here is it’s not just the Rc hardness on steels that gives them flexibility, it’s also the composition of the steel. Point being we could run 1095 up to 60 Rc. and still have more flexibility in the 1095 steel than S35V at 59 Rc., but it would decrease the toughness of our 1095 if we did that. We played around with our heat treat recipe for a long time and did a lot of testing until we got what we feel is the perfect compromise for what we want our knives to do.

    When we finally chose to build a knife for those wanting superior edge retention we chose to hit the middle of Crucible’s suggested Rockwell and run them at 59-60. We could have gone a little lower and sacrificed some edge holding and maybe picked up a little toughness but we decided to not do that. We knew we were giving up a lot in toughness over our 1095 to do this, but the biggest mistake we made is doing it on an ESEE-3 since we are known for knives that take abuse. Personally, I won’t carry the ESEE-3 in S35V simply because I never know if my idiocy will cause me to use it to the point of failure. As for stain resistance, rust doesn’t bother me. Carbon steels have been slicing, skinning, cutting, carving, whittling, killing and surviving in the Third World for years and continues to do so, so a little rust on your knife just wears off with use and doesn’t hurt anything. But we understand that some folks want a rust-free knife and a knife that holds a better edge than our 1095 and we don’t blame them for that. Making an S35V knife was simply a marketing move for us. People want it. People are willing to buy it. We are willing to sell it, and do our best to make it the best we know how. However, It does not reflect what or how we use a knife in our travels, training and adventures. Are there better S35V knives out there than ours? Most likely. We make no claims as to being the best at anything except telling you the flat-out truth about our company and our products.

    Stay tuned, Shane and Patrick are going to do some more video of abusive work on our S35V ESEE-3 and post it up, regardless of the outcome. We are not doing this to imply these knives should be abused. It’s merely to be transparent and show folks what they can take before blowing up - and even that will be a subjective "test". With all that said, it’s still an ESEE knife so if someone breaks it, we’re going to replace it.

    Jeff Randall
     
  20. Dirty Harry

    Dirty Harry Member

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    I just ordered the Black ESEE 4 blade (without serrations) with Blue/Black compact scales and the plain black Kydex sheath from The Knife Connection. I ordered on line but I did call a few hours prior to the order and spoke to a very nice and informative person. Excellent company.

    I am now part of the ESEE knife owning family... don't tell my boss that I bought the knife while I was working.

    Hopefully this December, I can report back with how well it performed on the next buck or hopefully a bear.
     

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